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OK Boys and Girls, all you 1.2 VTi 3-banger owners will no doubt be familiar with the 'juddering' issues associated with this particular engine, and the dealerships seeming standard line that rattling and banging away from a standing start is just "a normal characteristic" of this 3 cylinder engine. That particular excuse/explanation has always seemed a load of old bollocks, and I for one have never been convinced that the EB would have been released on to the market with a seemingly incurable fault. My own 1.2 Allure has been juddering away from traffic lights and out of junctions in a typically unpredictable and random fashion since i bought it 18 months ago. I really like the car, apart from this unique characteristic, and it has almost lead me to change my driving style to the point where driving another car feels quite unusual.

I decided to routinely check my engine oil last weekend and found the level to be around halfway between the min and max on the dipstick, so I decided to take advantage of the nice weather and do an oil change. The car has had two services since I acquired it...one by the supplying dealership ( A Honda franchise), and lastly by a friend of mine who has a car repair and service business, which is not franchised. I would not stake my life either enterprise to research the exact grade of oil required, and therefore cannot be certain which grade of oil was in my engine prior to the change.

I sourced a Comma 5W30 C2 oil reasonably cheaply from my local Asda and changed the oil. I slightly overfilled the sump to the tune of around 5mm over maximum on the dipstick, accidentally.

Since the oil change, 5 days ago, and driving my usual daily routes, the car has not juddered once, no matter how hard I try to get it to. It drives like a normal car, and I'm encouraged by the difference. The only slight vibration I have encountered feels more like a flat-spot, or ECU related acceleration problem, rather than the previous annoying drum-solo, blamed on clutch or transmission issues. I have doubted from the start that this problem is clutch related, as the car pulls like a train through the gears once it has gotten itself moving.

So, fellow judderers....check that oil level, make sure your sump is correctly filled, and if that doesn't work, try to ensure that the correct grade of oil for the engine is used at the next oil change and see if it makes a difference. I've done around 160 miles, free from the judders, but will post an update as things develop. Fingers crossed.

Could this juddering issue really be related to oil levels or grade? Would this affect the balancing mechanism if incorrect grades of oil were used, or the oil level drops below 3/4? Answers on a postcard please.....
 

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I have not had any such problems with my first 1.2VTI or my current turbo model. using oil specified by Peugeot and not needing any top ups between services with 7500 miles done between services.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, it seems that most of the issues relate to the non-blown versions of the EB, at least from reading the posts on the forum relating to the problem. I'm changing the plugs and fitting a K&N filter soon, as neither have been changed in the 4 and a half years of the car's life. The oil change has also netted a daily fuel economy improvement of 44mpg weekly average, compared to the 41mpg recorded last week for the same, mainly urban journeys.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No, the juddering came back. It really seems to be a throttle position issue, so I give it more beans and it doesn't judder.
 

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My first 208 was a 2013 1.2VTI 82hp Allure.
Never experienced any form of judder in the 24000 miles I had it, in fact had no problems at all.

I only used Total oil as supplied by my dealer when carrying out a service, and very rarely needed to top up between services. I would never put in a cheap oil like Asda. You get what you pay for. It probably only just meets the specification required.
 

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As strange as it sounds, I changed my oil and the judder disappeared!!

Embarrassingly I should admit it was too low on oil, well below the minimum notch. The dealer I got the car from 6 months ago told me the service was done and I never bothered to check the dipstick myself. such an idiot.

So, the problem has been simply the engine having a lot of internal friction and not being able to make enough torque for a smooth pull off. Not a clutch problem at all, although it definitely felt like a clutch problem.

I imagine any other issue that compromises engine performance can cause such jugger, like bad spark plugs or dirty fuel filter etc.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #8
On the rare occasions I notice it now, its usually following a period of being stuck in slow moving, stop/start traffic, almost as if the ECU is adapting to the driving conditions. I have the car serviced by a non-franchised Peugeot specialist who uses a Skoda Citigo as a daily beater. He reckons that the 3 cylinder engine in that is just as bad as the one in the 208, and surprise surprise, he gets stuck in traffic on a regular basis during his daily commute. Its certainly not a mechanical issue, or something that can be fixed with spanners by the sound of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi Gazz,

Nope, it still judders occasionally - usually following a period of being stuck in rush hour traffic, inching along. I can't believe that someone with dealership workshop experience of this engine hasn't come forward with an answer.
 

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Hi Gazz,

Nope, it still judders occasionally - usually following a period of being stuck in rush hour traffic, inching along. I can't believe that someone with dealership workshop experience of this engine hasn't come forward with an answer.
Mine has been in for a service today and they said that my clutch has a high bitting point and suggest clutch replacement. But I can even think of doing any of that until I fix my oil consumption. 1 litre every 600 miles. Unless the service has helped today.

Do you have oil consumption issues?

Do you know if the 1.2’s have a pcv valve?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi Gazz,

No, I have no issues with oil consumption at all, and as far as the PCV goes - not sure. I have read articles on some of the larger 4 cylinder PSA engines having these, but not sure how its handled on the 3 cylinder. I'm not convinced that it's clutch related at all, as there are plenty of instances of owners having a new clutch fitted, only to find that the problem is still there. There is an interesting article on Pistonheads forum at the moment which mentions this:

The 1.2 Puretech engine suffers from LSPI (Low Speed Pre-Ignition), a problem that has reared it's head since the introduction of small, turbochared direct injection engines. Citroen/Peugeot know this but have kept the problem very quiet. The procedure that joejoejoe mentioned starts with an oil change since LSPI is known to be exacerbated by certain oil additives and it's the cheapest and quickest fix.

Not sure if it's true or not, but it makes more sense than a clutch problem, mainly due to the intermittent nature of the problem. I've been using super unleaded for the last 3 fill ups, and adding Miller's fuel system cleaner to try and remove any carbon build up in the engine. It HAS been noticably better, with less juddering, but its too early to tell whether it's on the way to sorting itself out. The car is 100% happier when moving at speed, rather than crawling along in a traffic jam. Definitely the quirkiest car I've ever owned.
 

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Hi Gazz,

No, I have no issues with oil consumption at all, and as far as the PCV goes - not sure. I have read articles on some of the larger 4 cylinder PSA engines having these, but not sure how its handled on the 3 cylinder. I'm not convinced that it's clutch related at all, as there are plenty of instances of owners having a new clutch fitted, only to find that the problem is still there. There is an interesting article on Pistonheads forum at the moment which mentions this:

The 1.2 Puretech engine suffers from LSPI (Low Speed Pre-Ignition), a problem that has reared it's head since the introduction of small, turbochared direct injection engines. Citroen/Peugeot know this but have kept the problem very quiet. The procedure that joejoejoe mentioned starts with an oil change since LSPI is known to be exacerbated by certain oil additives and it's the cheapest and quickest fix.

Not sure if it's true or not, but it makes more sense than a clutch problem, mainly due to the intermittent nature of the problem. I've been using super unleaded for the last 3 fill ups, and adding Miller's fuel system cleaner to try and remove any carbon build up in the engine. It HAS been noticably better, with less juddering, but its too early to tell whether it's on the way to sorting itself out. The car is 100% happier when moving at speed, rather than crawling along in a traffic jam. Definitely the quirkiest car I've ever owned.
I think in a couple of months I will change. Notice juddering is worse when the weather is colder. So interested in knowing if the additive has helped or resolved your issue now
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi Gazz,

Running the car on super unleaded seems to make a positive improvement. The additive doesn't seem to help the symptoms on its own, but the higher octane fuel does.
 
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